Pictures of Pornograpy: an interview with an LDS bishop

This is part I of my interview with BR, who is a longstanding, active member of the Mormon church. He was the bishop of a BYU singles' ward for three years.

NSG: When you were bishop of the singles ward, did you have a lot of people coming to you with concerns about pornography?

BR: I would guess from my experience that about 98% of LDS people have some brush with pornography.

NSG: whether that be a chance encounter, or an active perusal…

BR: Yes. I think most people have had a time when they have viewed pornography and even sought it out. When I was bishop there was one time when I was counseling 25% of the ward about pornography or other sexual issues. I even counseled some women… though I would say with the women it was more like 10%.

NSG: do you think that might be because they would be less willing to talk about it, or do you really think less women have a problem?

BR: Well in my experience, women are a lot more reluctant to talk about it. I feel like I was able to be a bishop that lots of people felt comfortable talking to about these problems, and I pretty much had to prompt the women to talk to me about the pornography.

NSG: These people who came to you to talk about pornography; why did they come? Was it just out of the blue, they wanted to talk about it, or was it more in preparation for marriages and missions?

BR: There was a lot related to getting married. I had about ten cases where I had to counsel the couple about a pornography problem in order to get them worthy to be married in the temple.

NSG: Were there any cases where it didn’t work out, where the couple broke it off because of pornography?

BR: Yes. But most of them were able to work through it. I tried to counsel with the women especially, about why men struggle so much with pornography. I have found that it is very hard for a woman especially to understand why a man has such a hard time with it. I talk to them about how a man works in that way… how any attractive woman that walks by can become an issue. And it seems that men have a hard time understanding why a woman’s heart can break over an issue like this. A lot of the women save themselves for marriage and that relationship that should only come after marriage, and they feel betrayed when they find out that their partner or fiancée has gotten into pornography.

NSG: What would you say is the general reaction of a couple when someone confesses to pornography problems?
BR: A man will feel very guilty, unworthy of the woman. He will wonder if he can be trusted or if he should even expect the woman to trust him. And typically a woman will react with sadness and anger, and wondering if she can ever trust him. Her perfect image of him as prince charming is suddenly different; the knight in shining armor is looking a little tarnished. The thing is, that happens after marriage anyway. I have to counsel couples to really think about how much they love each other, and if they do love each other to make it work, to work with each other and try to overcome this.

NSG: So you would say in most cases, you think it is important for them to think about trying anyway.

BR: Yes. At least not react right away, give the matter some thought and some prayer, and decide what you want to do.

NSG: What about a case where there is a real problem, something that could be classified as an addiction, maybe. For instance, someone who spends hundreds of dollars a month on porn, someone who buys magazines and movies and spends hours a day looking at it? Would that be something that might cause you to advise differently?

BR: It really depends. Are they wanting to overcome it? Do they want to get better? Are they committed to being free of it? Those are the real issues. And sometimes a pornography problem is beyond what I can address as a bishop and I refer them to a professional who can help them overcome it. But yes, I think there are some cases where it is better not to get married because it will just cause further problems. And you have your own progression to think about; if you marry someone who is in it so deep that his progression is going to be stunted or keep you from progressing, you have to think about that too.

NSG: What sorts of pornography are most common? In addition to internet porn, do people ever come to you with things like movies, magazines, literature?

BR: All of that.

NSG: Do you find that women tend to look at pictures or gravitate more to literature?

BR: It does seem like women have more involvement with what we call “soft porn”, things like romance novels. I have found also that a higher percentage of the women who came to me tended to look at same-sex porn, meaning they view the same porn men would want to view.

NSG: Really? That is very interesting.

BR: There were some men who had the same issue… viewing pornography of the same sex. More men came to me about porn in general, and a smaller percentage of those men looked at pornography in what you could say was a homosexual way. Less women came to me, but a higher percentage of those women were looking at their own sex. I think with women, they keep those drives so much inside that they are not willing to try to talk about and understand them, and so they cover it up by romance novels and things like that. It is a lot harder for women… they did not want to talk to me much, I had to ask them questions to lead them to telling me they were struggling. I found a very good therapist to refer them to who did a lot of work with the women, with abuse issues and such.

NSG: Could I have that referral?

BR: Sure.

NSG: Did you find that, when you were counseling dating couples on this issue, that women or men would ever overreact to one of those “fleeting glance” type instances and decide not to go through an engagement, for instance?

BR: Yes.

NSG: What do you think of that?

BR: I think you should really stop and think about it. Think about yourself and how much you love someone. Try to learn about it and understand it rather than being afraid of it.

NSG: Give it a chance rather than just dismissing the idea of staying together.

BR: Right.

NSG: Did the couples you counseled work it out?

BR: For the most part, yes. There were three that broke up over it. There are a few that I am sure are still dealing with the issue in their marriage.

NSG: So really if you decide to stay together you should think of it as a recovery process and something that isn’t always possible to stop cold turkey… to try to be compassionate and work on it together.

BR: Yes. It seemed to me that the best successes came when the partner stepped up and took an active role in the recovery process. Talked about it. Did some monitoring. Called them sometimes and asked how they were doing. Asked them frankly if they had looked at it since they last spoke. As a bishop men usually wouldn’t react as well when I asked those kinds of things as they did when their girlfriends or fiancées did.

NSG: What can couples do to help each other avoid pornography and other inappropriate sexual acts while dating?

BR: I think some women are so innocent, and sometimes sheltered, that they just don’t know what affect they can have. Men just go… they react to things that some women don’t realize. A woman can help by not allowing a lot of caressing and long kissing sections, and no inappropriate touching… it’s hands off. A man should be wise and know where the boundary is and be responsible. Those long make-out sessions lead to so much pain and trouble… just stay out of it and keep it well within what is appropriate. And couples need to talk about it. They don’t have to do it a whole lot, and they should treat it as sacred, but they have to talk about sexuality, and about their own desires and expectations and as they prepare for marriage, they just need to talk about it. It’s important.