Oct 24, 2008

Arguments for Prop 8: New Cool Thang

some compelling arguments for proposition 8 can be found at this site.

I have a hard time with this issue... this article helped me a lot. Thank you, new cool thang.


David L said...

What are your issues with Prop 8?

There are a great number of issues I see, and not all of them have to do specifically with the contents of the proposition.

I know many people have trouble with the Church taking an active political stance on the issue. I also know many who have trouble with the Church's request that we actively support and work for the passing of Proposition 8.

In many ways, I'm glad I'm not making that choice even though I know which way I would vote. But even though I'm glad to not be directly involved, I offer my fondest support for those in California who are actively supporting the proposition, and I do what I can in my own limited ways to support it.

Personally, I have no issue with the Church taking a stand on a moral issue. Indeed, I sometimes wish the Church were more vocal about certain issues. And I also have no problem with the request to provide assistance.

I see this as a simple question: Do you believe that the Church is guided and directed by the Savior, Jesus Christ, through his ordained and authorized prophet? If you can honestly answer yes, this really becomes a simple matter. If you answer no, then the issue at hand is more about your testimony than anything else.

I for one believe that Christ does indeed direct this Church through prophets, and I also believe His prophet has spoken. My duty now is to exercise my own free agency to either accept or reject what I have been taught with all its accompanying consequences.

I accept.

NoSurfGirl said...

the problem I have with prop 8 are mostly bleeding-heart things. My favorite teachers (2 of them) in jr high were gay. And wonderful teachers. I've had gay friends, had huge feelings of admiration for a gay therapist I knew a while back, and feel that overall, gay people are decent people just like everybody else. In mormon culture, gay people leading an openly gay lifestyle tend to be slandered as evil, repellent, and lascivious... not true.

Of course, prop 8 has nothing really to do with that. It's about defining marriage as between a man and a woman. And most mormons don't have "hate" issues. But there are those out there who will find this as an excuse to trash talk people like Ellen Degeneres and Rosie O'donnel, two women I admire for their charitable contributions and activism, but disagree with on lifestyle choice.

When I was going to ricks, I was so excited to be with all the other mormon Kids. To not have to worry about people teasing me and belittling me because of my beliefs. And then I heard two boys scoffing at each other and making "gay" jokes in one of my english classes. It made me sick inside. This was right during the time prop 22 (the original piece of legislation against gay marriage) was going on. People were all talking about how gross and disgusting and terrible gay couples were.

So I have issues with anything that has to do with gayness, activism, and the church's active involvement in it. But I overcome those issues (or try to) because I also believe the prophet speaks the truth, and that we have to do these things to preserve the family, or else untold dire consequences will result. That is why I appreciated the aritcle... it operationally defines what some of those consequences might be and gives me a real reason and good feeling about being in favor of 8. And the beginnings of a budding testimony about it, too.

David L said...

Thanks for the expanded explanation.

I think there are many people who still fear homosexuality because, let's be honest, it is strange and weird and unusual and outside "our" range of normal. People in general don't tend to respond to the different in life.

I too have had many gay friends especially at one of my jobs in SLC. They were wonderful people, full of life and happiness. I struggle somewhat with how I would respond were one of them to ask me to justify my position. I guess I would have to fall back on my testimony of prophets. I'm sure that explanation would ring hollow to someone who doesn't accept prophets and modern revelation, but it is the best explanation out there.

In many ways, I see my testimony as the fulfillment of promises that life in the gospel offers protections. In this case, the protection is a clear understanding of the Lord's will regarding this issue. And it helps me considerable to know that the Lord does indeed love all His children including homosexuals for who they are.

Putz said...

i can't get into this with your mom or you, have had to visit your mom on her silly blog to avoid this...sorry

N.F. said...

I am voting Yes on Prop. 8 and have been doing as much research as I can on the issue. My opinion is that those who are voting No are making claims to what the Proposition is about that are false.

I had (have) a Yes on Prop. 8 sign in my yard and night before last it was vandalized. The yellow part was torn off and crumpled and ripped in a ball right outside my house.

It is now a bigger hot button issue to me because of that, and because of this link someone shared with me on facebook.


I think we should all have our freedom of choice and shouldn't be bullied into following something we don't agree with.

(Sorry to take up your comment space. Thanks for letting me vent.)

Nathan and Rebecca Scott said...

For some other ideas on the consequences of not upholding traditional marriage, read this:


It is definitely thought provoking, and probably one of the best non-religious editorials I have read on this subject.

Putz said...

i think everything has been said period....obama, mc cain, prop 8, it all has been said over and over and over

merrilykaroly said...

Thank you for posting this!

Regarding your comment about your experiences with LDS people making fun of gay people, that is truly unfortunate. I would add that LDS people aren't the only ones to do so though! There are jerks of every religion and every shape and size who belittle people who are different from them. Someone who is truly in touch with the Spirit would never do so.

I hope that the jerks out there don't make the rest of the members of our church look closed-minded and mean and give us a bad name.

NoSurfGirl said...

it's true... jerks come from all walks of life. I guess that's why it bugs me that even my mormon friends can sometimes be jerk-like. I want people that I love and identify with to rise above jerkiness. Hey, it's OK if baptists and catholics and born again christians make fun of gay people but we mormons? We should know better, right?

See... that's me being prejudiced. Sigh. I guess it just bugs me that some people will feel justified in their jerkiness by this church sponsoring of this bill. But I guess people will justify themselves anyway.

merrilykaroly said...

I agree. The members of the Church should be held to a high standard! We should know better.

Lucy Stern said...

My dear girl, this is a big issue and this video is one of the reasons I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman.


I have friends that are gay too but that doesn't mean I have to support them in marriage..... I don't live in California but I know which way I would vote.

Lucy Stern said...

Back again to say, that I do have gay friends and they are wonderful people. I just think that we have to follow the prophet and the words of our Lord in making decisions for our church and family. Marriage is sacred in the Lords eyes, but it was meant to be between a man and a woman. Just my comment, not trying to be a jerk....

NoSurfGirl said...

Lucy, I agree with you. And no, you're not being a jerk. Being a jerk is making fun of gay people, saying how gross you think they are, lambasting their characters for their choice of lifestyle. I think it's good to realize that people can be good and make choices that we don't agree with or condone.

Sue said...

I hope you will take a look at my post on Proposition 8 at http://www.grannysuesnews.blogspot.com/2008/10/prop-8-its-impact-great.html because I had a hard time with this prop at first, too. I finally found clarity on the issue and think you might be interested in reading about some of the inspiration I received as I studied and prayed about it.