Oct 31, 2008

More Deep Thoughts...

*last night*

God loves me. I know because my skirt fell off in the middle of the parking lot at night, and not while I was onstage singing.

*on the drive home*

(I'm parked outside Carl's jr waiting for my congratulatory fried zuchini, watching a man stumble across the parking lot, sway on the curb, and hobble towards my car.) That guy looks a little drunk. I think I'll roll my windows up.

*a second later*

(watching as he adusts his pantleg over his huge, gargantuan leg-cast) I'm a complete jerk.

*This morning* I wonder if leprosy is related to chicken pox. I can't imagine anything more unsightly and disgusting.

My poor, poor babies. What would they think of me if they knew I made them suffer like this on purpose?

*at about 12:30 pm*
(standing in line at the city administration building)
Look at all those fairy princesses. Too bad they aren't old enough to vote yet.

Wow. I didn't know false eyelashes could have rhinestones.

That guy's counting the line, saying maybe McCain will win Utah before November 2. I wonder what he'd think if he knew I'm voting for the other guy?

I wonder how many of these people are voting for the other guy? It can't be just me, can it?

*at 3:24 pm*

is it a sign of immaturity if I adore any candy that has a radioactive grape flavor?

My kids will look back on today with fondness, even though right now they probably can't imagine a worse form of hell: unbearable itching and having to stay home from trick-or-treating.

Luckily, only the 6 year old really knows what she'd be missing. And she's well, so she can go. Thank goodness.

I've got to get some taffy flavored cookies before everyone else panicks and there's a run on the grocery stores.


Putz said...

skirt fell off...i don't understand...parking lot i don't understand....were you a good girl doing what the loed wqould want you to do in the parking lot,,,,my boy and i voted early too....as i was walking out the court house jan chamberland said well who did you vote for, and i said without thinking o bam a and she got this strained look on her face and said , but he has fathered two black children, and i lookk ed back at her and THOUGHT, how else could this be???he is a a marriage that could only have one result...i walked away puzzeld

Janell said...

Its a sure sign of blessing when one's skirt does not fall off when one is in the center of attention. One of my teachers once had her slip fall off while she was lecturing. She was very embarrassed. At the beginning of class I'd noticed it was hanging a little low, but i figured that she'd been intentionally wearing it that way.

I trust chicken pox more than I do its vaccine. It was miserable as a kid, but I lived. But chicken pox at Halloween? That's cruel.

Yay for voting!

A Girl Called Dallan said...

You. are. awesome. Thank you for another great post.

I'm glad your skirt stayed on until you were in a secluded setting. As the Realtor said, location is everything.

And thank you, Putz, for another colorful comment. I am so glad that I don't live in Utah. If I ever heard someone say, "but he fathered two black children" I . . . well, I don't know what I would do. Walk away puzzled, I guess.

And throw up.

But reading about it from afar cracked me up big time.

Lucy Stern said...

If you did vote for the other guy, I hope you remember these words when our economy and our freedoms go down the toilet:

"You can not help the poor by destroying the rich. You can not strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You can not bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You can not lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You can not further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You can not build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence. You can not help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves." --Abraham Lincoln

NoSurfGirl said...


I appreciate you commenting on my blog, and I realize that everyone is all het up about the election right now. But I cannot understand why anyone would vote McCain. :( Sorry. I think the economy is going to keep going right down the toilet if we elect him, because he's going to do the exact same thing we've been doing the last 8 years.

OK! Now we've both got that off our chests. And sorry for anyone I've offended by being uncharacteristically blunt.

A Girl Called Dallan said...


A Girl Called Dallan said...

I hope you will read my post today at dallan-cloudcovercottage.blogspot.com. I think that every church member needs to read it.

Apparently, some didn't receive a certain memo. Maybe we can get it circulating again.


NoSurfGirl said...

That is a great post, Dallan. Soooo illustrative of how Mormon Culture sometimes overlaps with Mormon doctrine, and leads good-hearted members astray. I appreciate you posting that link here.

Hayley said...

mmmm...grape flavor... here they have really random candies. and all the lollipops and chewy. I hate that. Give me a good old tootsie pop and im set.

your kids are looking so amazingly beautiful. of course, they take after you so im not surprised.

Putz said...

read it and felt that even more keenly when my bishop said i wish all my ward memembers were republican...i was talking about dallin's piece, ,,,on mormon democrats,,,,i mean mormon who are led astry and it is all nosurf's fault, at least in my case

A Girl Called Dallan said...

I'm honored.

How we love Elder Jensen!

Lucy Stern said...

I didn't mean to get you upset, I just don't know how anyone can vote for Obama. I voted for George Bush in the last election and I am very disappointed in him. I don't like McCain either, he is more democrat than Republican but Obama is an unknown. He promises "change" but his change is so very opposite of the American way. Many years ago, a man promised change, he was a good speaker and he told the people what they wanted to hear and after Hitler was voted in, he took over.

The only reason I am voting for McCain, is because he is the better of two evils..... Obama wants to bring socialism to our country and I am against socialism.. Socialism will hurt all Americans, the poor, the middle class and the rich. If Obama gets elected, I pray that I can eat my words...I really do.

Please don't take offense at my reasoning, I don't take offense at yours.

NoSurfGirl said...

I'm not upset, Lucy. I actually kind of spoke out that time to demonstrate that I feel as strongly about voting for Obama as you feel about voting against him. And yet we're both good LDS people, with good reasons behind our views. I've had those thoughts... about how Hitler was a charismatic leader with a huge following just like Obama. But I really believe the man is a good man, with a real feeling about the cause he talks about. He really believes what he says, he's not just feeding people a bunch of lines.

As for socialism... I don't think he's as extreme as that. I do think he's a democrat, with pretty typical democrat views... taxes should be most heavily visited on the rich, with most benefits going to the poor. And I can understand how some might view that as a "robin hood" mentality. Our church does this, too... those who are rich pay more tithing (because we all pay 10 percent) and in a way it benefits everyone (temples, BYU, the bishop's storehouse as a reserve if we fall on hard times) but it does mostly benefit those who are impoverished. HOw is this different?

Obama is not a socialist. I haven't heard him talking about forcing people to have certain jobs, or having the government decide which jobs deserve which levels of income, or calling all groceries and supplys "the governments" for distribution by the government. A lot of people see socialism in the tiniest variance from what we call "social conservatism", but it's pretty much just a scare tactic by republicans... a tool in the republican "playbook" we've all heard about this election.

This is my own opinion, of course. The reason I responded strongly to you, Lucy, is because I want you and others who have written to me things in this vein how they sound when they tell me things about how Obama's going to destroy the world, Obama's been funded by terrorists, Obama's a socialist... yada yada. None of it's true. This is just a game, guys. A game played by people with lots of money, to get "their guy" elected. IN truth, most presidential candidates are insipidly neutral... otherwhise they woudln't get much of a vote because they'd alienate some piece of their party base.

--rant over--

I already voted, BTW. So there's no going back now!!!

merrilykaroly said...

The difference between the church's system and Obama's is that the church tithes everyone the same exact percentage. And everyone has to pay, even the poor.

merrilykaroly said...

(sorry if that sounded blunt or anything-- I was just answering your question "how is this different"? :) )

Josh said...

And I think it being a church and it being a government give them different rights as to what they can do. A church is voluntarily joined while a government usually isn't. The giving of our property should never be forced in my opinion.

Josh said...

And about that Lincoln quote from earlier. I love Lincoln and I'm partial to the points brought up in the quote, but as far as I can find he didn't really say those words.

Erroneously attributed ot Abraham Lincoln. Since the 1940s these "Ten Points" attributed to Lincoln have been widely reprinted. They ahve appeared in such places as magazines, Christmas cards, and the Congressional Record. The library of COngress and Lincoln scholars believe that any connection made between Lincoln and the "Ten Points" is spurious.
-- Platt, Suzy. Respectfully Quoted. p213
(found the book on Google Book Search)

But I'm still looking to see who did.

Josh said...


"The giving of our property should never be forced in my opinion."

Except for the protection of God given rights. But I don't feel that I have a right to my neighbors money just because he makes 10 times more than me.

I think the right side does use the term "socialist" as a scare tactic, just like the left-side paints the rich as evil moneygrubbers that have the responsibility to give to the poor. And I think there is truth in both. The policies on the left are nowhere near as extreme as actual socialist governments have been. But the idea of "spreading the wealth around" is a fundamental socialist and communist principle. Yet I do think that in the ideal society money won’t matter other than as a means of progressing the society as a whole. Also, the polices of the right do let rich moneygrubbers keep as much of their wealth as possible. But they also let the rich give as much as they want. Often to organizations that usually run much better than the government.

To me I feel the responsibility of helping our neighbor should be on our own shoulders and not on the shoulders of the government. The government isn't more than me it is me and it is my neighbor and I shouldn’t be able to force my neighbor into helping me. Besides for us to ever build up a true equal society it must start with each person and each person must have the most choice as possible to enter into that ideal society. The society, like conversion to believing in Christ, cannot be forced. If it is forced it cannot work.

Um, that was a long "correction" response.

Lucy Stern said...

Nosurfgirl - Here is the part that scares me about socialism (which Obama has large ties to). There is a lot we don't know about Obama. Read this about socialism and pray that if Obama wins he really is a nice guy......Right!

The one thing we know about the church is, that is is good. I am not so sure I trust the Congress to the "the right thing...."

In case you are interested!!


Thanks for allowing an open forum on this.

NoSurfGirl said...

I agree with you, josh, that the church has much more right to collect and distribute like that. Because it's not a government agency, and also the tithing is voluntary. That's what would be the ideal thing in this world... people giving voluntarily to their neighbor, to those in need.

I guess that's where my views become a little more democrat or "socialist" as they say... I think people are far too divided now, far too alienated from one another. Back in pioneer times a community could take care of all of its poor and destitute through voluntary charity. But today, nobody cares (or sees) enough of their neighbor. So it just wouldn't (and doesn't) work.

Take the famous example of the woman who screamed for an hour in a dark alley in New York city for someone to help her. She had been brutally beaten by a serial killer and left to die. She regained consciousness and called and called and called for help... nobdy bothered to investigate. Nobody even called the police. And the killer found her again and finished her off... all without intervention on the part of those who could hear her through their windows.

I think that one of the prophecies of the last days has come to pass, that the love of men would wax cold and that their hearts would fail them.

So, IMO, the only way to make sure the poor are taken care of is (unfortunately) through taxes. Maybe that makes me cynical... actually, I know it does.

And about the 10% tithing being "equal" and therefore fair... I'm willing to bet you'd get a lot of kicking and screaming from Republicans if anyone even suggested a tax like that. THey'd say, that's not fair. Bill gates makes a billion dollars a year. Are you telling me he has to pay 100 million in taxes while his neighbor that makes 120,000 only has to pay 12,000 in taxes?

The problem with our system is it does not tax the rich equally with the poor. The rich pay a proprotionately minsicule amount of their income in taxes, when weighed against the amount the middle class citizen pays. Mostly because of loopholes and legalities and other ways to hide income from taxing.

Of course, the poor recieve it all back and then some, so some would argue that they don't pay anything and get somethign for nothing. But really that's all because of deductions; income level, number of children, and all the things that actually we all benefit from in the system (though it's true that the rich benefit much less from these types of exclusions and deductions.)

But I call that fair... unfortunately, people these days aren't inclined to be fair on their own, and so in our imperfect world we have to force people to be fair so that we don't have thousands dying on the streets every day.

There's my bleak view of the world. ;) Maybe that's why I like Obama... I need a little optimism in my life. Who knows.

NoSurfGirl said...

And Adelle,

It's OK to be blunt. :) I think you and I know each other well enough and appreciate each other enough to be OK with that. Lucy, too, actually, though I've not met you in person.

Lucy Stern said...

nosurfgirl - I'm glad that we are getting to know each other better. I still disagree with you. You are talking about the "Fair Tax" plan when you say that everyone should pay 10%, poor and rich..... It is just like tithing. The ones that have given very little to the poor are Obama and Biden. Biden gave only $3,000 something dollars to charitable donations out of an income of just over $2 million. He likes being charitable with everyone elses money, but not his own.

I don't think anyone should be "forced" to give to the poor. we already give 10% of our income to the church in tithing and then pay income taxes. There are a lot of poor out there that don't care to work because they know how to "milk" the system... We do have a lot of others who geninuely deserve our love and care and should be helped.

As far as the woman in New York, who was beaten and left to die: How will that change by going to a socialist system.....Those are moral issues and I don't see much of that changing because of Obama. In my opinion it won't get better, it will get worse.

I want to ask you one question. How many kids do you know that were "forced" to go to church when they were kids? Think now: How many of them rebelled when they got older and left the church or quit going?

I'm staying up tonight to pray for the safety of our nation......

PS: Maybe someday we can meet face to face....I would love that!

merrilykaroly said...

Interesting perspective, Nosurf. I understand a little better now, knowing those views, why you voted for "the other guy."

I am a Republican, and I think a fair tax is the only fair way to tax people.

I also think it would be awesome if we all got to choose how much we gave (like the law of fast offerings) to the government to take care of the poor. I think if we weren't forced to, you might be surprised how many people would voluntarily do it, and create organizations to do it better.

Putz said...

how come you bring the world to you in discussions, are you a debater????shell and 23 comments on my blog and now lucy..and another 23 comments and how come obamba is known as the other guy...and why is he and harry potter always speaking of he WHO CANNOT BE NAMED or the other guy...and i can't look at you in the face because you are for THE OTHER GUY and bishops who publically annouce that he wants his whole ward to be r---------why isn't mc cain the other guy???????

Putz said...

oh and i am sorry i spelled DALLAN'S NAME WRONG...she is slao my hero and nosurf and teach

Putz said...

and i also realized i spelled obama wrong too...what a putz i am

A Girl Called Dallan said...

Hey, it's not my real name anyway. You can spell it anyway you want. Well, within reason. I don't care for w-e-i-r-d-o.

David L said...

To add fuel to a couple fires... I heard that same "10 Cannots" quote attributed to Dave Ramsey today.

As for McCain vs. Obama, I wonder if we all get too caught up in the negatives of campaigning. Personally, I think Obama is a socialist. That is not a decision I've arrived at through campaigning by republicans or any other fact, but through my own observation of what he has said and done. In general, I feel that democratic leadership leans towards the socialist side of things. I think they've used just as many scare tactics as republicans. That being said, I voted for three democrats in this election.

For the republicans, I think that McCain is not a good choice for the economy although I do agree with his stance on Iraq. I think that McCain is too much the capitalist who has forgotten that people matter. I think that republican leadership in general is too hands off and that they have forgotten the people who put them in power. I am disappointed in the negative campaign and scare tactics. That being said, I voted for four republicans this election.

Beyond that, I cast a vote for a Libertarian. Personally, I see the third parties as too extreme in one way or another to really merit serious consideration for major positions. I'd like that to be different, but it's not that way right now.

I guess the point that I'm saying is this: as long as we dwell within the confines of party politics and allow any one party to form or even help form our decisions and opinions, we'll never make an accurate assessment of anyone or anything.

Vote the person. Research the person on your own. Make your own decision, outside of party lines, and then stand by it. Personally, my choice for President will not win this election; he's not even running anymore. But I still made the choice to vote for the person who I felt was best equipped to lead our nation because voting for the "lessor of two evils" is no more a strategy for success than refusing to get out of bed in the morning.

One final comment: I get frustrated when I hear the all too common "I can't see how anyone can vote for (candidate's name)!" Such a comment ignores the truth that we are all individuals and that our dissimilar attitudes, natures, and thoughts are part of the collective beauty that we, as a species, present so wonderfully. I can see why someone would vote for Obama. He has come to mean change and vibrancy. But I did not vote for Obama. I can also see why someone would vote for McCain. He represents an experience that Obama can't even begin to grasp at. But I did not vote for McCain.

Become informed, vote intelligently, vote the person, and don't mock someone who has done the same and yet arrived at a different conclusion.

p.s. As a side note, it was nosurfgirl and her husband who really opened my eyes to politics and all three of us voted for different people from three different parties despite the fact that each of the very serious and lengthy political discussions we've had resolved in consensus. Intelligent people can disagree.

NoSurfGirl said...

Yup... the fair tax would be "fair" I agree. The problem is, the rich have a disproportionate amount of their wealth and capital gains invested where it is utterly untouchable through taxes.

I'd like a 10% tax if there were a way to make sure that everyone paid it, and everyone paid it on their yearly gain. But the logsitics of that are mind-boggling :)

Thanks dave... I needed that chastisement. I shouldn't have said I can't see how someone would vote for mccain, I think I was just feeling a little agnst. I've had so many people tell me these last few days how Obama is evil and will take our nation down the toilet, etc, as if I needed chastisement for voting for him. I see it more as a disagreement of ideologies... which is why I enjoy political disucssion (most of the time. I've learned this year,though, that about a month before elections It's probably good to refrain until the day after whomever is elected gets elected).

Thanks for all the discussion, everybody. I'll come back to this thread a lot, I think, when I'm forming future political opinions or writing other things about politics.

Lucy Stern said...

I don't think there is much more we can say right now, all we can do is watch and see what really happens.

Josh said...

I think I'm an optimist. Though I do think people are forgetting what it means to be part of this great country, and because of that are sorely neglecting our neighbor who we should love.

I believe in change, but I don't expect my government to make that change happen, just allow it to happen. I think for change to really happen it has to happen to each person individually and I really think that can only happen when the choice to do good is still there. Not made for us. I think if it is we'd be pleasantly surprised (again the optimist). If that makes sense.

I made a few comments on this thread and then didn't come back to it. But NoSurf, I wanted to let you know how much I enjoy the discussions we have on topics that you conjure up or that someone else conjures. It's refreshing to talk to someone who likes talking AND listening (that's also why I like talking to my wife). I hope to listen as well as you do.

NoSurfGirl said...

hooray. Thanks, I needed to hear that:)